We did a guild run of Sartharion last night. All went well, I was 2nd in the DPS meter, but it was a very close thing between Grenthal and Myself, with the number one spot changing places a few times.
We did great, took Sartharion with no drakes up, and only 1 death from a semi-squishy melee. Pretty good for a first attempt... a little too good in fact.
My main concern is how easy it all was. It felt no more difficult than a standard heroic. And out chances of failure were very slim.
Having now run the Arachnid Quarter of Naxx, and the Obsidian Sanctum on 10 men, I can safely say that 10-man raiding isn't what it used to be.
These days it seems to be more of a case of a standard heroic, but with 10 men, instead of 5.
Kara used to be a challenge, with a steep learning curve, whether you knew the boss tactics or not, you had to stay on your toes.
With the raids I've done so far, that's not the case.
Sure, there's a bit of positional tactics going on, and a few techniques. But I haven't seen a wipe yet. Only the occasional squishy going down to a random hit.
The Munquis are investing alot of time into preparing for raiding, and to be honest, I'm not so sure if it's going to be needed. The same team that made the run last night would appear to be able to clear Naxx quite easily, or at least with very minimal wipes.
I think we may be over-thinking the whole Naxx thing.
Should it really be this easy? Or maybe we're all just better than we think?
The value of game pass
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Why should normal 10-mans be more difficult than heroic 5-mans? The drops have the same i-levels (while e.g. kara drops were 5 levels above BC heroics).
ReplyDeleteBlizz realised that only a tiny percentage of paying customers got anywhere near BC end-game, so they adjusted the difficulty in WotLK (and added a heroic level for the more hard-core). It really is as simple as that.
So where's the challenge, or the feeling of accomplishment?
ReplyDeleteWhen the guild managed to clear Kara, the pride was a big morale boost to all those involved. Because it really was hard to do.
If the other TBC raids had 10-man versions, we owuld have progressed much further.
With WotLK, I thought the theory was that the 10-man raid system was to ensure that all guilds could make progress without having to become epic raiding guilds.
Not to dumb-down the content to the point where it's just as easy to PUG.
Kara was 10 man, and was difficult, but still within reach of almost all guilds.
Naxx is 10 man, and it's a push-over... surely that wasn't the intention?
As for the item levels, I don't think that's a problem. Kara varied massively from the start to the finish. Entry level was easily doable in blues, End-Game was more Epic essential.
And the Epics from Emblems of Heroism, and Naxx drops, are more than enough for 25 man progression.
I see that my first sentence should have better read "Why do we keep expecting 10-mans to be more difficult than 5-man heroics?". Sure, there should be challenges. Perhaps they are left for the heroic 10-mans, perhaps they will come in 3.1. I have no idea.
ReplyDeleteHmm I can't agree on the gearlevel stuff where you are talking about. Heroic Naxx drops higher gearlevel then normal Naxx. But is it harder? No, some bosses are even easier at 25 man.
ReplyDeleteIf you read general wow forums you will see plenty of rant topics with complaints that the current content is to easy. There are only 2 hard bosses and those are Sarth + Drakes and Malygos. The sad part is that it are only 2 bosses and the fun learning those runs out fast.
Yes, the current content is really easy and it gets boring verry fast. I didn't feel epic when clearing any raidboss so far except for Sarth + 2 heroic.
I defo think Munquis can clear Naxx at this verry moment. Go and try to round up a bunch of guildies and go for it as I do think you will need the gear you get in Naxx for Malygos and for Ulduar when it comes out.
The game have changed. It is certainly catering more and more to social guilds like us and people who can't commit any scheduled time for WoW. As I see the new raids and instances they are made for every group to clear without any problems. Instead of gear dependent fights or do x while y happening is being replaced by Boss have x, y and z abilities and they pop up at random. So more of the reflexes and awareness are in the focus.
ReplyDeleteAnyways every thing the game has is tuned to be cleared of any half decent group. However if you want a challenge you have to attempt the achievement that comes with almost all bosses in game. So without the game standard being in "did you defeat that boss" its more of " did you defeat that boss with style :P "
Achivements is the new challenge mode in WoW, which is one I really like. And the game is moving more and more towards it. This is no longer TBC, might as well accept it and go with the new ideas, instead of wanting the good old days of two nights of wipe on netherspite :P
Fully agree Vind, but given the design of the mentioned achievements I would say "using brute force" rather than "with style" in most cases ;)
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